QUESTION ON LITTS

[Jim Sheppard]

In organizing my files into a Loose Leaf on LZ Litts, I was printing out the General Orders and discovered a name I missed on the wounded list...posted earlier in this thread. I have edited that post to reflect the ommision of 2LT Tilton. He was on the same orders as Lou Frisbie as wounded 9 March 1968. The total now stands at 33 wounded.

[rigo-ordaz]

My count on the APCs at Litts is the following:

The math is simple- * 4 line platoons = 16 tracks

+ HQ. Mortar 4.2 Plt = 4 tracks

C.O.s track 406 +1 Flame track+ F.O. track = 3 tracks

TOTAL - 23 TRACKS
(The 4th line platoon was considered a "Weapons" Platoon.)

I recently found a picture sent to me a long time ago I think by Lt. Blochberger- It shows Litts but I think it was a different time, because Gold's track is facing West and the COs track is facing the other way from Jamison's picture, which I believe was taken on the 8th of March. We all believed it was party time. I believe that if someone sees that picture it would influence them to believe that the COs track was to the North-while I believe it was in the Southern sector- more or less in line where 403 was.
That picture is kind of tore up, but I think Blochberger has the original.
Rigo Ordaz -http://www.imdb.me/filmmakerordaz

[rigo-ordaz]

Today is the 8th of March. We pulled into LZ Litts not knowing what was in store for us..If you were there, I don't need to continue. While searching and researching, I came across this information.
The name of the Dustoff was
DUSTOFF ALPHA SIX
and the name of the unknown Crewchief, No. 33 on the list is
Gregory G. Savage of the 498th Med. Ambulance out of Lane Field
His e mail is savageg@sbcglobal.net I tried to contact him but he didn't answer, The 498th was a small company with 6 Hueys. I think Gregory got a bronze star that morning but not for sure. Perhaps Jim or somebody else can try to contact him.
Rigo Ordaz Out - http://www.imdb.me/filmmakerordaz

[rigo-ordaz]

Now that the reunión is over I would like to find out if anybody tried to contact the crew chief of the chopper that crashed at Litts. The information is in the prior
message and also his e mail. Did any new information come out at the reunión?

[Russ Roth]

Rigo,

Chuck Ogle the AC was there. He confirmed they went down outside the perimeter. We were able to pinpoint pretty closely the exact point due to a picture he had and him being in command and knowing where they were intending to set down. I really enjoyed meeting and visiting with Chuck and his wife. None of the other crewmen were there and I don't know anything about the crew chief. I think Jim has more information about what we were able to confirm about certain aspects of this battle.

[rigo-ordaz]

Well that,s good that you met with Mr. Ogle. Did you get a copy of his picture? If I remember correctly the chopper ended up facing north with the commander still strapped in. He had a gash on his left side of his head. There was one of the crew sitting down on the ground a short distance from the craft. Just trying to remember
small images of that morning. Do you remember any of this?

[Russ Roth]

Well that,s good that you met with Mr. Ogle. Did you get a copy of his picture? If I remember correctly the chopper ended up facing north with the commander still strapped in. He had a gash on his left side of his head. There was one of the crew sitting down on the ground a short distance from the craft. Just trying to remember
small images of that morning. Do you remember any of this?

I do as a matter of fact. Chuck and I talked about it. He recalls the difficulty I was having with not knowing how to let the harness loose and asking the pilot how to get him out. He also recalled falling right on top of the pilot. The gash was from a bullet passing through his helmet and grazing his head. He had the helmet with him. You would have enjoyed chatting with him as he was able to add some things from and an "in the air perspective" that we probably could not have seen or known. I didn't think to get a copy of his picture but I would sure bet Jim did. It was really pretty incredible to see and visit with him this many years later.

[rigo-ordaz]

It would be great if somebody videotaped him. I could not make it to reunión (lack of coins) but I would relish anything the Assoc has for sale to include cds or videos etc. Just let me know.

[Jim Sheppard]

I thought I had posted an update "post-reunion" on the LZ Litts gathering in my suite at the reunion in May...but cannot find it here. (I seem to remember there was a second thread...and it may be posted there) Sadly I missed the entire discussion as I was too busy with family members of our KIAs who were all arriving that night and looking for me. It was so hard to leave my room...and I glanced back at all those men standing around the dry erase board debating all their remembrances. I doubt there will aver again be as complete a gathering as took place that night. All I have to show for those discussions are photos I took of the final perimeter layout as they all remembered it. I also have some key points jotted down by Robert Melendez. I spent considerable time with Chuck Ogle but do not recall a photo of significant difference to what we have. I seem to recall he got the copy he had from us...or it was so close to what we had that I did not bother getting a copy.

I will be working on what I garnished over the coming fall and winter months. I have spent most of the time since the reunion working on the event photos and my continuing work updating KIA files. As usual, I have put "full time" 50th Infantry work on hold for the summer following the reunion...and I feel refreshed. My wife and I will be taking her son back to College this weekend...then moving her daughter to a new apartment in Medina, Ohio, midway through September.

Look for some "tweaking to our LZ Litts data by the end of this year or early next year. I am also planning a trip to the National Archives to look at the Qui Nhon Evac Hospital's Daily Staff Journals (DLs) and General Orders (GOs)...which will keep me busy with additional finds...I am sure.

Fast forward 30 minutes: I decided to stitch together the dry-erase board as I found it after the gathering of the LZ Litts men. They positioned APCs, etc as they collectively remembered their locations. THIS IS NOT NECESARILY TO SCALE! So don't get too excited. It is meant to slow rough details of the shape and positioning of the key elements involved. All were in agreement and only the SE section was uncertain. Most felt there might have been an APC or two in that space...but could not remember specifics. In time I will create something improved...based on this mockup. I was not there to influence any of the results on this mockup. This was strictly as the men who were there remembered.

[rigo-ordaz]

They have the position of my track (403) way off. My track 403 was positioned right next to the burning track and track 418 was to my north. Please change that. If I remember correctly Track 343 was not at Litts that was the replacement for Hawkins other track that got hit there, track 423 Mickey 1. Track 412. was the burning track facing west and they have it facing south. I haven,t checked the diagram fully yet but there seems to be a lot of tracks missing. I know it,s a work in progress . Rigo Ordaz

[Russ Roth]

They have the position of my track (403) way off. My track 403 was positioned right next to the burning track and track 418 was to my north. Please change that. If I remember correctly Track 343 was not at Litts that was the replacement for Hawkins other track that got hit there, track 423 Mickey 1. Track 412. was the burning track facing west and they have it facing south. I haven,t checked the diagram fully yet but there seems to be a lot of tracks missing. I know it,s a work in progress . Rigo Ordaz

All I can say is Mick was sitting there with us and I would expect he would probably recall his track #. My memory of the burning track is pretty vivid and I am pretty certain it was facing South. I do not think there are more than maybe 1 or 2 tracks missing at least one of which was probably a 3rd platoon one. I can't recall all 4 track #'s and neither could Noel Allen. There were several guys put this together that were in attendance during this battle.

[Ernie Milito]

My track 418 is correct and hit by a rocket. The burning track was south as shown. The track to the left of 418, 416 was being loaded with the wounded. They wanted to pull 416 off line and do not remember if they did. All I remember is telling someone your nuts. We were geting hit hard on the west side.

[rigo-ordaz]

Your track position is correct Ernie. My track (403) was just south of you. When I told Helvie to move the track, A. Perez ran to your track taking the only working M60. We got closer to the burning track and I picked up 3 wounded and went back to our original fighting position. SSG Swietzer was with us and was already wounded. lt Welch in 416 was one or two tracks north of you, and I believe he threw some CS grenades. North of 2nd plt was the mortar Plt. and I believe Mick was in track 423 Mickey One,.not 100 percent sure. I was the squad leader in 403 but since I had SSg Swietzer in my track I let him do all the radio talk with Lt Welch since he was wounded.
South of the burning track 412 was 419 facing south west, that,s where Couch was at.

[rigo-ordaz]

There was another track burning as stated by the the Flame track guy, perhaps that,s the one you saw Ernie. That track was facing south. That track was also
from the First Pltn and was right in front of the flame track, so it would have been 410. 0r 411. There is a pic that looks very semilar as 412 but it is not, so in that
respect you are right. There was a burning track to the south. Will indicate the pic later. Rigo

[rigo-ordaz]

Check Mick Hawkin,s picture 56 in the photo gallery. It is a picture of track 412, the burned out track, facing west. Point of reference is the big tree in the background which was in the creek bed west of us.

[rigo-ordaz]

Addition to the wounded list?
Tom Leddy ,RTO for the Forward Observer, was at Litts according to Russ Roth in a prior message. He doesn,t say if he was wounded but there is a picture by Bob Gold at the hospital in Japan with Leddy. The caption says that he was wounded at LZ Litts. Should we add him to the list compiled by Jim? The other one is Gregory G. Savage, crewchief of. the downed helicopter.
By now we can safely say that Willie B. Bradford was killed in the CP (Command Post) área where he pitched his tent. My question is this: was he a driver? I am putting together a diagram of the perimeter but I have the COs track facing west and a bit south of the other track so that when the mortars hit the enemy was able to shoot a rocket from the south side of the perimeter and hit track 406 on the left side where the radios were. If the other track was the way you have it in the diagram, it would have been the other track hit with the rocket. Both of these tracks were very close together. For sure there were mortars that were thrown at us ar first. What do you think?

[Russ Roth]

Addition to the wounded list?
Tom Leddy ,RTO for the Forward Observer, was at Litts according to Russ Roth in a prior message. He doesn't say if he was wounded but there is a picture by Bob Gold at the hospital in Japan with Leddy. The caption says that he was wounded at LZ Litts. Should we add him to the list compiled by Jim?

Leddy was at Litts as you mentioned. I remember him specifically although did not know anything about him until I saw Bob Gold at the Reunion in KC. To my knowledge he was not wounded at Litts. What put him in the hospital in Japan was the 505 ambush. First shot got him in the chest right above the heart. Louis says he was bent over going over a hedgerow when he was hit which explains how the round came out right at the lowest rib taking a good chunk of bone with it. He lost a ton of blood and was sucking air from the back side. He never would have made it if Tony Harris had not arrived to help me. We had an extremely hard time sealing up both entrance and exit wounds. I did not think he had a chance to survive but somehow heard he did. Bob confirmed it when he showed me the picture in KC. I did speak to his Dad and sister after Barbara found him and discovered he had passed not long before.

[rigo-ordaz]

Russ Good that,s cleared up. so not on the list. Got thrown off by the caption on the picture.
Mick, found your picture of Mickey One 843, was 423 or ,343 the replacement and at Litts? These are the posible tracks from the Heavy Mortar Platoon 423. 343, 421, 422,and 425. We know each platoon had 4 tracks so there is an extra one there. could you or others from that Platoon eliminate the tracks not there?
Ernie, you are right each one knows about their own tracks better. In our platoon we have from south to north 403, 418, 416, and one more which we don.t have the number
The 3rd Platoon had 413. 414. 415 and one more which we don,t have the number yet.
The one that seems to be complete is the First Platoon with tracks 410, 411,419, and 412.
But we must remember that at that time we had a 4th Platoon which was placed at Litts between the First Plt. and the 3rd Pltn, We don,t have numbers for that Plt. unless 417 is one of them, I think Lt. Blochberger was in this Plt.

[Lou Frisbie]

Just found out this had a third page
Rigo I think I have picture of Chuck Ogle also his e-mail
send message to loufrisbie@yahoo.com

[rigo-ordaz]

Just confirmed that Willie Bradford was in track 406 when he was killed by rocket fire. He was killed while pulling guard on driver,s hatch. Confirmed by Louis Frisbie who was part of 406. On this track was Cpt.Bruce Braun, Sgt. Montabano, Louis Frisbie, Fred Bantle, and Willie Bradford.

On the other track close to commander,s track were Lt. Bensema , Tom Leddy and we don,t have the driver,s name.

Ernie, Zlazas was in your track 418, who was the squad leader?