QUESTION ON LITTS

[Jim Sheppard]

Thanks for the correction on Bob Gold's photo. I have added Russ Roth's wording to the photo description.
http://www.ichiban1.org/images/photos/gold/pages/gold1.htm
Good work guys. Work out as many details amongst yourselves as you can and I will archive the results when you are all happy with the results.

[Lou Frisbie]

I thank Larry Knowlton which was our reg driver could have been on R&R I don't remember Sgt Montabano being there either.
That may be why we had someone else( Bradford) on radio watch.

[Russ Roth]

I believe Robert Melendez may have some insider information about Bradford. I'm not sure how often he checks here but maybe he will see this and chime in.

RR

[rigo-ordaz]

As some of you might know, our First Sgt. came in on the 8th in the evening and took a lot of people and replaced them with others. Our driver in 403 was taken and replaced with Sterning who was killed that morning of the 9th. This is probably what happened with your driver Knowelton and replaced with Bradford. Jameson and Tovar were taken back that afternoon and many others.
I think the First Sgt. had some Intel Info that we were gonna get hit because when he came in he had his helmet buttened up like the airborne. Anyway we should have been on some type of alert, but hindsight is 20/20. No luck in me going back cause 1st sgt and I locked horns when I first got in, he sent me to the field and kept me there until my DEROS, but now I am thankful as I was in most all of the actions until I left. Let,s keep on hashing and rehashing until all parts fall into Place.

[Russ Roth]

Jameson and Tovar were taken back that afternoon and many others.

I don't know Jameson but Robert and I replaced Tovar and Provencher about mid January and I never saw them again except maybe LZ Uplift. I know Pete mentioned he was out a time or two after this but I don't think it was with Delta. At least not that I knew or saw.

I think the First Sgt. had some Intel Info that we were gonna get hit because when he came in he had his helmet buttoned up like the airborne. Anyway we should have been on some type of alert, but hindsight is 20/20.

I don't know what the First Sgt. did or did not know but I recall either hearing the local kids say VC come tonight or some of the other guys heard them say that and I overheard them chatting about it. Don't recall for sure. I mentioned this to Capt Braun at Bob Golds pig roast. He said he wished someone had mentioned it to him as he would have had us on a high alert. I suspect he would have also had several other things done or planned out.

RR

[rigo-ordaz]

For sure Pete Tovar was there on the 8th. cause I talked to him and he took pictures of himself and a Little coke girl close to my track. Jerry Couch mentioned to me sometime back that Jameson was supposed to be on 412 or maybe the squad leader. He thought also that he was on R and R. There are two of his photos that appear to be at Litts on the 8th. Now we know that Willie Bradford was brought in to replace the driver in 406.
All the Intel info came throughTOC at Uplift. Several years back I got a piece of information that they had intercepted a radio transmission from the NVA that a unit was going to get attacked but also that Uplift was going to get hit. Anyway , that information never got to us in the field.
One thing for sure, there was a lot of confusión then as there is now, but slowly we are putting things together.

[Russ Roth]

I would not stake my life on it but I do not think Pete was there on the 8th unless he made a run to the company from Uplift for some reason. Lets ask him?

RR

[wfm7]

No History of the 1/50th will ever be constituted as accurate until you guys conform to Rigio's recollection so just save yourself from this

[harley hawkins]

Not sure I can help much with APC numbers but I'm going to try. We didn't really talk that much about APC numbers that night, more about the fighting, but I think we were in agreement they were not right and as Jim wasn't there we couldn't ask him were he got the numbers we can only guess he got the numbers from us. George Borges said there was an APC between our APC and Wards APC which I didn't think so because I ran from ours to sgt wards APC for more ammo and didn't see another. Geo. picked up one of the APC not meaning for it to be his and placed it on the map to show the location and position not meaning it to be the right number. I don't think the number was even on the board he was talking about which is why he just got any number to show the position and after seeing the position he put it in I could see how I could have ran to Wards APC and back without seeing it. It is hard to believe I would not known it there but I believe Geo.so we left the numbers as they were and went back to talking about the fight and more than likely not in the right place when Jim came back.
I do not think 343 was at Litts but I could be wrong, 343 and 843 was the same APC. 411 isn't show it was a D company/ recon APC, 425 was Gold and 413 was Noel Allen I think 424 was sgt. Wards APC and also missing is sgt, Higgins APC which I'm not sure of that number. I need to talk to Danny Scott as he was on Sgt Wards apc And might remember it .
That is all I can remember of APC numbers . So it would be were Jim has 343 that would be us, than the APC Geo was on, than 424 Ward, than Gold 425, than Noel Allen 413 than, I would say Higgins .

Mick Hawkins

[harley hawkins]

Geo might have been on Higgins APC. Russ how is your brother doing? We will have to get him and Danny Scott to the next reunion.


Mick Hawkins

[Russ Roth]

Bruce is doing OK. Wishes he could retire but is no position to do that. Over 40 years driving for the same company. We talked a couple days ago making plans for deer hunting probably the first week of October. He did enjoy you and Danny and mentions you guys every so often. He really liked seeing guys and hearing stories he has heard for years and would like to come again.

[Jim Sheppard]

I am sorry I couldn't stick around for the meeting. I had made up a few cards with no numbers...since I knew I didn't have them all. I guess you guys just didn't see them there on that board. When I scheduled that meeting...I didn't realize that Wednesday night was the night all the KIA families would be arriving...and some of those people I had been waiting for years to meet. One was Carolyn Herr....the widow of Sherron Harbison (KIA MAy 5th) and it was her who arrived and came looking for me just as the "meeting" was getting under way. So I had to miss the meeting. I wanted to make sure I introduced her to all the men she would want to meet and talk to before the Memorial services the next day. And she had brough picture of Sherron I had not seen....so I was photographing them, etc.

By the time the next reunion rolls around, I should be able to set this up better and we can all meet again...with the board and cards. I may make the cards a bit smaller...since I can see now the scale was way off. That way, when APC were side by side but not necesarily "aligned"...it could be confusing when guys try to indecate who was next to them, etc.

Regardless of how that map turns out....and I do believe we will get it close before we are done...the other information this blog has generated and cleared up is amazing!

So I am thinking next time we can gather on Tuesday night after dinner. This way, most of the KIA family member will likely not be coming until Wednesday night. As you may recall, not much is happening on Tuesday night aside from a lot of smoke and BS by the pool! Maybe we will even have some different guys there to help out. New guys are surfacing avery so often...and maybe some who have not attended in a while will be retiring and now have the time and money to attend.

We expect the price will stay about the same for the whole event.

[rigo-ordaz]

Russ, I will stake my life that Pete Tovar was at Litts the evening of the 8th I took a picture of him with a coke girl and my track in the background. I sent the picture to Jim and I will send it to you. Jim could you post it, I can,t do it with this computer. He went back to Uplift with the 1st Sgt. and there were three medics left which was you Russ Roth, Robert Melendez, and Anthony Harris.
On other things if wfm7 meant his message to be correct, I thank him, on the other hand please show your name.
Mick. thank you for your input we are very close to getting your platoon correct. I will also thank Louis Frisbie for his input and he cleared up a lot of things.
This is like a debate where everybody puts in their two cents, and we try to clear the fog after so many years. This is very important to me as I am sure it is important to others, researching is going over and over the same things to search for the truth. I know some people get tired of going over the same things but that,ss how you get to the facts of how things happened.

Mick, I thought George Borges was in the 2nd platoon , unless he was in the track just south of you from the 2nd Plt. There are pictures of George Borges with Ernie Milito but he could have gone to mortar Plt. So what I get from your input is your track (possibly 423) facing West, then 424 Sgt Ward. (I put this track here because you say you went to it for ammo) then Sgt Higgens track (posible 421 or 422) then Gold,s track 425. Then facing NorthEast track 413 from the 3rd Pltn. with Noel Allen.
Are there any pictures of the mortar tracks there? Rigo

[Russ Roth]

Rigo,

Interesting you are that sure Pete was there. I only could ever recall three medics during my time with Delta which was about mid-January to shortly after May 5. That would be myself, Robert and Tony just as you mentioned. I asked Pete about this specifically at this last reunion. He stated when Robert and I replaced he and Provencher there were only three medics. I never saw him again until back at Uplift at some point much later. I am quite certain I would remember him rejoining the company other than the period of time 3rd platoon was sent with an ARVN Ranger Battalion which was later than this. I suspect you may have some mix up there but Pete certainly could straighten this out I would think. He said he was out a couple times after he left Delta, mentioned the companies and Delta was not one of them.

RR

[rigo-ordaz]

Thanks for posting the photo Jim. That photo was taken by me on March 8, 1968 at LZ Litts. That was Tovar's camera but I snapped it. Since he was 2nd Plt. Medic he was in our area, we talked he and I and Arturo Perez. After the picture he went to see Harris in track 419. After that I didn't see him as he was taken back to Uplift by the 1st. Sgt. Melendez and Roth were quite a way off on the other side of the perimeter.
Behind my track was track 418, their number is close 403 but you can hardly make it out. When I am wrong I'll be the first to admit it. I was wrong about saying the flame track wasn't there because I didn't see it. Couch also mentioned to me that he hadn't seen it. It must have come in after we were set up. Many other things are not definite and still researching. We are doing fine, we are finding many new things and correcting others. Remember this is my point of view, I respect your point of view please respect mine.

[rigo-ordaz]

Mick, I thought George Borges was in the 2nd platoon , unless he was in the track just south of you from the 2nd Plt. There are pictures of George Borges with Ernie Milito but he could have gone to mortar Plt. So what I get from your input is your track (possibly 423) facing West, then 424 Sgt Ward. (I put this track here because you say you went to it for ammo) then Sgt Higgens track (posible 421 or 422) then Gold,s track 425. Then facing NorthEast track 413 from the 3rd Pltn. with Noel Allen.
Are there any pictures of the mortar tracks there? Rigo

[Jim Sheppard]

Please stay on topic and leave the personal attacks to private e-mail. I have deleted Rigos last diatribe...as well as my own recent post...which, although meant to be a compliment, was grossly misinterpreted. This discussion, sans egos, has produced valuable information about this portion of our Battalion's history. I would like to see it continue without confrontation. Thank you.

[Russ Roth]

Anybody didn't see my post I have copies as it was deleted very fast.

Actually I read it and I felt it was a bit of a personal attack.

[rigo-ordaz]

ON TO BETTER THINGS
Consider this on the southern edge of the perimeter. What we know is that 1st plt mostly covered the southern edge of the perimeter. Look at Noel Allen,s last picture and the 2nd picture of Charley Jamison, they both appear to be taken at the same time and place. On jamison,s picture you can see the little hedgerow which I remember being where 1st Plt. parked their APcs. In the background you can see track 406 the way also I remember it was positioned.
Now, on Noel Allens,s picture the cutline says they were the Recon Platoon. The way I understand it was that at Ft. Hood there was a Recon Plt and three line platoons. When Delta Co. was formed the Recon Platoon was folded into the First Plt.
If these pictures were taken on the 8th of March at Litts then some of the members were already in other tracks and they perhaps came together for the picture. We know that Noel Allen was in track 413 in the north sector of the perimeter, and Jerry Boles was in track 414 on the East sector.
Jamison,s first picture shows him by Jerry Couch,s track 419 with two other em and one of them appears to be Harris. According to J, Couch, Jamison was part of track 412 the track that burned down, but not there on the 9th. Was he in the group sent back by the 1st sgt? What you,all think?

[harley hawkins]

I think Denny Driscol was Plt leader of recon in Nam. He was with heavy weapons in Hood. George Borges for some reason I thought he was in the motor pool and always went to the field with D company and with different plt. George checks in once in a while maybe he can tell us. Denny was wounded at Tam Quan so wasn,t with us at Litts but Neol Allen was.


Mick Hawkins